In this episode:
Mark and Derek speak with Mick Ebeling, founder and CEO of Not Impossible Labs, where the emphasis is on technology for the sake of humanity. Not Impossible Labs is a self-described “technology incubation lab” where they don’t start the incubation process with the intent to make money from what they create, but rather focus on solving an “absurdity” (for example, deaf people not being able to hear music or blind people not being able to skateboard) and figure the revenue model out later. Mick expounds on their business ethos of “help one, help many” and describes how their business model leads to products that help those with disabilities, but also improve the lives of people without disabilities. He elaborates on exciting new projects that will be rolling out in 2019 such as technology that has the potential to mitigate Parkinson’s disease tremors.
Links of Interest
Announcer: Welcome to the IAP, the Interactive Accessibility Podcast, bringing you the people, technology, and ideas helping to make your world accessible to everyone.
Mark Miller: I'm your host, Mark Miller, thanking you for helping us keep it accessible. Do us a favor, if you're enjoying the IAP, share it. Tell someone about it. Hey, even link to it from your accessible website. So I'm here. I'm your host, Mark Miller. I'm here with my cohost, Derek Bove and I want to thank, before we get started, our producer who's not on air with us today, Marissa, For putting this really cool guest, really cool podcast together. We have a guest that I'm extremely excited about talking to today. Mick Ebeling and he's the CEO, founder of Not Impossible Labs and I'm going to table Not Impossible Labs for just a minute because I think that it's a difficult company to explain real quick, but I'm going to give you a little bit of story here.
Mark Miller: Back in 2015, Mick, this is for you. I was at CSUN and you were the keynote speaker for the 30th anniversary party at CSUN and this is my first exposure to you. And I've got to tell you what an inspiring exposure it was. This was the first time I heard you talk about Tempt1 who is a graffiti artist from the '80s that, because of ALS had, and this is my way of describing it, but essentially lost the use of his body really. He obviously had eye movement and stuff like that. And this inspired a product that you guys did called the Eye Writer. And you, incredible story, I should probably let you tell it. But you really found this person and found out what they really wanted, what they really needed in this situation they were in, and inspired this technology that allowed them to create their art again.
Mark Miller: And then I think the other story that you're really famous for that you told, and that inspired me during CSUN, was the story of Daniel where you guys actually went out to the Nuba Mountains, if I'm pronouncing that correctly and built a hand for this kid who had lost his hand when his village was bombed. But not only did that, the thing that really inspired me about that, Mick, was that you guys taught the people in his village how to reproduce that. You didn't just do this and walk away, but you really had the foresight to teach people in the village how to do that. So these two stories inspired me and I think they inspired the company. So with that, I want to introduce you guys to Mick. Mick, it's great to be talking to you today. Thank you so much for being on this podcast with us.
Mick Ebeling: Absolutely. Thanks Mark. I'm really excited to be here.
Mark Miller: Great. Great. So, do me a favor and just ... You know, I think you have a challenge, right? Because you've got such a unique company and I can remember coming home to my wife telling her about this speech and sounding like Barney Fife trying to explain something you didn't understand to Andy Griffith going "Well, they ... They sort of ... Well, you see the kind of." It's really difficult to explain. The one phrase that I think rings the best for me is that you guys focus on making technology for the sake of humanity. Can you give us just a quick sense of what your company really does?
Mick Ebeling: Sure. It took us a minute to figure out how to say this concisely, but I think we've nailed it. So let me know how I do [crosstalk 00:03:41]. Here we go. Drum roll please. We are a technology incubation lab. Full Stop. That's it. That's what we do. We incubate technology. Now our technology is, as you mentioned, technology for the sake of humanity. So we don't start our incubation process thinking how can we make a ... You know, to quote Austin Powers "A million dollars", right? That's not our objective. Our objective at the start is how do we solve an absurdity? How do we tackle something that you look at it and you go, wait a second. That's just not right. We have to solve that. So it's a bit, I guess, anti-capitalistic when you start because the lead question is not how do we become billionaires? The lead question is how do we solve that absurdity?
Mick Ebeling: And we've figure out in our technology incubator lab, we figure out with duct tape and zip ties and highfalutin craziness and mad scientists, we figure out how to solve it. So period, full stop. We incubate technology. Now what makes it unique is that typically, when you're creating an incubator, you raise a bunch of money and other people put their money in. And then you become an investor and you invest in these different pieces of technology. So there's two distinct points. One we didn't take on outside money. It's either my money or the money that we make as a business that we invest into the making of this technology. Second, up to this point, it's all technology that we come up with. It's absurdities that we see and we say we have to change that, we're going to fix that.
Mick Ebeling: So we dog-piloted ourself. And I think I said two, but the third part is the stories of what we do, the story of going to the Nuba Mountains and creating the world's first 3D printing prosthetic lab, the story of Tempt1 being able to draw again using only his eyes, the story of all the other things you can see on our website, we ended up taking those stories and licensing those rights to the stories to brands who say "Oh my God, these stories are amazing. We want to push those across our channels. We want to give you some money, push them across our channels." So the revenue that we use to incubate the technology, we ended up creating this cycle that the stories that generate money are stories about the technology we're creating. Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat. So that's how we fund ourselves. But at the end of the day, we're a technology incubation lab that just so happens, rather than raising money through getting investors money, we raise money by telling the stories of what we're incubating and creating.
Mark Miller: Yeah. And the investor model is reversed. It comes after you guys do that. It's brilliant-
Mick Ebeling: How did I do? How did I do?
Mark Miller: Huh?
Mick Ebeling: Is that easy to understand?
Mark Miller: Oh, that's [crosstalk 00:06:44] Yeah, that's good. And I understand it and I hope the listeners got it. You know, for me, I think to really understand who you guys are, those stories are it. Like you can explain what you do and you can say you're an incubator, but the ethos of the company is really realized through the stories the stories that you're talking. And intentionally, I didn't go too deep into those stories because you can go on your website and you can see those stories. And I want to do something a little bit different here today. Really what I want to do is give you a platform to talk about some of these new and exciting things that you guys have coming up because these are the things that aren't saturated out there and your social media content and your website and easily accessible.
Mark Miller: So I want to tell you a little story and introduce one of the technologies or one of the absurdities that you guys are in the middle of right now, if I'm using that term right. But years ago when I first went into my professional life, I was fortunate enough to run across a woman who's deaf, and she became a really good friend of mine. And I learned a lot through my interaction with her. And one of the things that I distinctly remember, she was an incredibly good dancer and she could feel the beat of the music through the floor. She had incredible rhythm and to me, it was just fascinating to see her navigate that and she explained to me how she would hold a balloon or she would get a cup of coffee in a styrofoam cup and keep the cup once it was empty, and she could feel the vibrations of the music and experience the music through these vibrations. And that's something that stuck with me.
Mark Miller: So now you, Mick, I start reading the stories and what you're doing and you guys have taken that simple concept and created a really, really cool technology around it, right? VibroTextile, I think is what you call it, where people can feel the vibrations of all sorts of things, but I think music is one that you very specifically applied it to, and giving people who are deaf the ability to experience music. And it was brilliant the way somebody put it as a whole body, whole brain experience. And it's incredible. And looking at some of your videos, you guys have, this is a question for you real quick. Mandy, on your videos, she's AGT. She's the one that was on America's Got talent. Yeah. Great. So anyways, could you just talk to me about the inspiration and what you guys are doing with this and we got to get to skateboarding along the way here as well.
Mick Ebeling: So actually it's funny is that skateboarding is the start of the answer, which is I live in Venice Beach, California. I've got three boys. We go out and skateboard all the time. Venice Skate Park here is one of the best and the most traveled to skate parks in the world, right?
Mark Miller: Virtual high five because my son and I do the same thing. I spent my summer building him a half pipe in the backyard. I'm in the East Coast, right? So I'm nowhere ... We're as far away from skateboard capital as possible. But we have Rya Airfield up here, so we've got a big indoor skate park and what a great connection it is between my kid. So keep going. I really appreciate that.
Mick Ebeling: Such an amazing sport and such an amazing way to connect with people too. And the crazy thing is everyone thinks that they're a bunch of hoodlums and the funny thing is they're actually just the opposite. Everybody's so nice and so sweet. And if you're trying to figure out how to do something and you ask somebody, now the person you asked might be all tatted up with pierces and look like someone, but they're like "Oh yeah. Hey, no problem. Oh, keep trying. You can do it." You know what I love most about skateboarding is that it's the sport of failure. If you're not failing 90% of the time, then you are not progressing. So it teaches you, and this is actually a chapter in my book, it teaches you fail, fail, fail, succeed, repeat as necessary. I think it's like chapter six or something. But that principle is something that is an underpinning of how we operate here.
Mick Ebeling: So back to the story. I skateboard, a friend of mine fell, hit his head. He hit his head, hit the back of his head, and he lost his sense of smell. He didn't fall on his nose. He fell on his head, lost his sense of smell. That makes Mick, talking about myself in the third person is always a little awkward. That makes Mick think wait a second, guys. You didn't fall on your nose. You fall on your head. That means you don't smell with your nose. You smell with your brain.
Mick Ebeling: So if you smell with your brain, you see with your brain, you taste with your brain. That means you hear with your brain. And all of those are just pathways to the brain, so why don't we figure out how to get to the brain with music because now cut to the way that the deaf community and the deaf population will sometimes be relegated to experiencing music, as you said with your friend, is holding a balloon or standing in front of speakers or holding a styrofoam cup of water and that's just stupid, right? That's not a way to experience music. And it's not right that music unintentionally has become a point of segregation where if you can hear, you get it this way and if you can't hear well too bad, right?
Mark Miller: It's not for you. Yeah.
Mick Ebeling: Yeah, that's too bad. So we said "Alright, let's figure out how to change that." So I became really obsessed with that, watching how the deaf community would experience music. And I said "Well, why don't we figure out how to to hack around the part that is the conventional pathway, the eardrum. And why don't we figure out how to hack straight to the brain." So we created a piece of technology that transports and already pre-segments drums to the ankles, guitars to the wrist, base to the base of the spine and vocals to the chest, and it's a piece of wearable technology. It's wristbands, ankle bands, et cetera, so then when the music hits the person who's wearing it, it's the skin that's acting as the eardrum that's transporting the signal to the brain.
Mick Ebeling: But we've pre-segmented it as opposed to your brain interpreting, oh, that's the bass drum. Oh, that's a guitar. Oh, that's the vocals. We've pre-segmented it. So now somebody who is deaf can look at a vocalist and when their mouth opens and they see themselves, they see someone projecting, they can feel those words in their brain. When they see the guitarist strum the guitar, they can feel that strum on their skin and in their brain. So that was our theory. We did it. The first prototypes sucked, but we were on the verge of something and we kept going and kept going and we came up with something. And then we cracked it wide open and we showed it to a massive headphone company. And they went from kind of a whatever, let me see this thing to, holy cow, this is amazing.
Mick Ebeling: So it's been a five year pursuit and has gotten us to where we are now. And we launched about four weeks ago in Las Vegas in partnership with Avnet, Zappos adaptive and the Church of Rock and Roll, and an incredible band named Greta Van Fleet. Then we put on the show and the beautiful thing about the show was half of the audience was deaf and half of the audience could hear, but it represented the first time in audience everybody was experiencing music in a similar way, which is they were feeling it. Some could hear, but everybody could feel it. And in this really precise, perfect, the zero latency way that people share this experience. And what we always say is that it ended audio segregation or it was the birth of music and audio inclusion.
Mark Miller: That's incredible.
Derek Bove: You know, what's ironic is I'd literally just discovered that band yesterday on title.
Mark Miller: Oh really?
Derek Bove: Yeah. Yeah.
Mick Ebeling: Incredible band. Incredible guys. Like really, really big hearted guys. And they're blowing up right now, too.
Mark Miller: That's awesome. You know what's crazy is I was in Vegas. I wish I had known. I was in Vegas probably around about that time.
Mick Ebeling: Ah, it's too bad.
Mark Miller: Yeah. Go ahead, Derek. Sorry.
Derek Bove: No, I think what's interesting, Mick, is a lot of times, and I've worked in this industry mainly for a company that develops software for low vision individuals, and a lot of times we'd talk to folks and they'd have an impetus behind why they were supporting someone or whatnot. And I think what's interesting is, and you touched a little bit about your philosophy and kind of failing and getting back up again, you kind of run the gamut here. I mean you've got assistive devices for people with ALS. We've got the devices for deaf people. The 3D printed arms, Parkinson's, and Project C.O.D.I is about someone who has a disease similar to retinitis pigmentosa, which is effectively tunnel vision. You kind of cover the gamut and I think ... Is there anything you can say about that, right? You're not just helping one segment, you're helping everybody and I think that's a really cool thing that you're doing.
Mick Ebeling: Well, I think it goes back to the fact that our model is counterintuitive, right? One would say, okay, you're going to become the best low end, ocular recognition company. Well for us we see ourselves as these kind of punk rock, Venice Beach, skateboarding, Robin Hood's where we see things that are absurd and we say "Well, let's try to solve it. Sometimes we solve it and then we throw it out to the world and say "Hey, you guys go take it. Take it and run with it. It's open source." You know, we just wanted to light the fuse, but we don't have to be there the entire time. And sometimes we see things and we're like, oh wow, this is really fun. We're really having a good time on this one. Let's continue to pursue that, which is what we're doing with Music Not Impossible.
Mick Ebeling: So we've got a whole gamut. You mentioned Project C.O.D.I. We hack ourselves as well. So the thing that we created for the music, and having an inclusive music experience for the deaf, we have now since then, that core idea has spun off into an incredible launch that's going to happen in Q2 of next year where we realized that the vibrations that we hit, we patented this technology and the vibrations that we were giving off from music when it was put on someone with Parkinson's, it stopped their Parkinson's tremors.
Mark Miller: That's incredible.
Derek Bove: Wow. That's-
Mick Ebeling: It's [inaudible 00:17:37], right? And that's just ... I can share all kinds of videos with you on it. You don't believe it until you see it. And even when you see it, you just kind of don't believe it. But that was genie in a bottle. So that's called VibroHealth and we're rolling that out. Project Cody, my wife's second cousin's son. I'm not sure where that falls into the family tree lineage, but we just call him our nephew. He has this very rare disease as you mentioned, and he is going both blind and deaf. And we said well, wait a second. Why don't we figure out how to hack our Music Not Impossible technology and make it so that as he approaches things that it's kind of like that backup signal on your car, except for rather than going beep, beep, beep, it actually vibrates your body and the intensity would increase. So as you could navigate a maze and as you would turn and run into something, it would [inaudible 00:18:30] and it would come down. So you could just from tactile inputs, you would be able to navigate a maze.
Mick Ebeling: We've got now another thing in the blind community that we're really excited about. We're launching a project that we're doing with Zappos Adaptive around helping a blind skateboarder-
Mark Miller: This is the story I wanted to hear.
Mick Ebeling: Be able to go and skate any park anyplace in the world. So we're crafting a solution, and this is the fun part, we don't have to teach them how to skateboard 'cause look, I would call myself an average skateboarder. This guy's blind and he rips. I mean, he still rips, right? He ripped before he rips now. But his ability to go into a park and skate was something that, you know, he asked to learn it. So we said, well, how do we create a way to make parks accessible for everybody to go into?
Mick Ebeling: And so we're crafting that right now. And the beautiful thing about that is we crafted ... And this is an underlying kind of tenant to how we operate. We always say help one, help many. So Justin, the skateboarder, is our one and we're going to solve it for Justin. And we've got grand plans for him and creating this so he could walk into any skate park and in a short amount of time, he would be able to "see" and be able to map out what this park is so he could skate it. And he'll go hard, right? He'll go harder than anybody else.
Mick Ebeling: But the how many is if we can create that for him, we can create that for kids who were born blind at birth who would never in a million years try any type of a sport like that, and now they have that access to go and express themselves in a way that would have been relegated impossible for them forever because of the nature of ... They've never learned to skate. Justin's advantage is that he knew how to skate. And so it's now just figuring out the landscape. Well, how do you teach someone who's blind to skate if they've never skated before, right? Now we're crafting ways where that's going to happen. And the funny thing is, and this is where you go back to the incubation model is we craft. We start with what's absurd and let's solve it. And then once we've done that, then we look at the business model. Well, here's the thing, you skate, skate with your kid, right?
Mark Miller: I do, yes.
Mick Ebeling: Were you ever a pro skater?
Mark Miller: I did not skateboard until my kid started skating.
Mick Ebeling: Okay, great. So your level, I'm going to put you in that same average level.
Mark Miller: Yeah. Well, somewhere way below your average level though, please.
Mick Ebeling: What we're doing now if this had a benefit for you and your son, and you're not blind, is this something that you would subscribe to? The answer is yes, because we're going to craft this as a way that actually makes the experience better for that population, for the non-blind population, right? The sighted. Well now you've got scale because now you're crafted something that both people who can see and people who can't see can participate in. And now you're not asking just the blind community to support this thing. Now you can actually have market forces and the quality of the product actually help other people, and then now it gets better for the blind as well.
Mark Miller: I mean, everything you say just rings so true. And going back to when we first started talking about skateboarding and you talked about it as a sport and you talked about what I think is one of the most important things of it were, you know, you literally are failing by falling down and having to pick yourself back up over and over and over again to learn something. And that's the benefit of skateboarding that I see for my son and quite frankly myself too, right? So unraveling what you're doing is you're now giving people who're blind that may not have access to that particular activity to gain that particular skill set and learn those things. They now have access to that as well. I mean, just bringing it full circle. And for me that's incredible because it's so meaningful to me that my son has that availability. And now it can be meaningful for somebody who's son is blind. So it's just an incredible thing.
Mick Ebeling: One of the best, most influential people that I ever got a chance to experience in regards to this conversation around accessibility and how to have market forces drive accessibility. I was on a panel at CES and it was with their association side, which is a big technology conference in Las Vegas. And the panel was the president of the Association of the Blind, the president of Association of the Deaf, president of Association of wheelchairs, I don't know, whatever it was. I'm kind of being a bit flippant about it because it was a bunch of heads of associations and then it was me. And then it was Stevie Wonder, right? And the question was posed, what would you do to help your constituents have more access? And what would you do to help your constituents? Right?
Mark Miller: Right.
Mick Ebeling: The president of every federation or association said basically the same thing, which is I would mandate that the government do this. I would mandate that car makers do that. I would mandate, mandate, mandate. Right? And it got to Stevie and Stevie said "Man, mandating anything is not going to help. If you really want to create change, what you have to do is create something that has a widespread market appeal, so that there are market forces that drive the development and the perfection and the advancement and the refinement of it. And then if that product, that app, that device, that whatever, if that actually helps the mass market, the majority, and then the minority will benefit as well." And he held up his phone and he goes "The smartphone's the best thing that happened for the blind community."
Mick Ebeling: He's like "If we mandated that the government make these devices for the blind community, would it have gotten ..." Now I'm probably adding words to what he said, but the answer is no. But you create a device that helps everybody, that everybody wants, and then the blind community benefits from it. The deaf community benefits from it. So that really, really fashions how we think, which is if you think from a let's solve for one, let's solve for Justin the blind skateboarder now. But as you're crafting that, you think from a, how do we [crosstalk 00:25:13] many, many people from there, now you've got something that can actually have some traction and get some momentum.
Mark Miller: Yeah. That's a great point. And that's a great example because in what we do, we're fortunate to be exposed to a lot of people who are blind and we know how much they love their mobile phones. It's really a bit of technology that's opened up a whole world to them. And one of the questions I answer most often on the phone is can blind people even use a cell phone? So what you're saying, I think, is when you go from that one to that many, the many starts to become compassionate and understanding. And a lot of the things that they may not realize out there, they start to realize through these technologies. You know, you're just talking about like a group of people who are hearing it, a group of people who are deaf, being able to experience something the same way. 'Cause everybody wants everybody to have a great time. But not everybody understands or is exposed or has enough in common to really bring it around. So I just think that what you guys are doing is working on so many levels like that. It's just incredible.
Mick Ebeling: Well, I think that that comment can the blind actually use a cell phone. I would say that the "fully-abled population", myself included, are so ignorant when it comes to their awareness of how the world really works, right? Because what you're saying is oh, because you can't see means you can't experience something. So one of my good friends is Erik Weihenmayer, the blind climber's climbed all seven summits, including the Grand Canyon. Total badass. He holds a festival conference called No Barriers. An incredible conference. I highly recommend anybody going to this thing because you're surrounded by people who are "disabled", who are kicking your ass. They're bad asses and they're out there getting it done, right?
Mick Ebeling: What I have now become aware of is through ... I took a class at one of these conferences with Daniel Kish. And Daniel Kish is a famous TED talk where it talks about him being the Batman. He uses echolocation to navigate his world where he clicked, right? And what I learned in that class, he blindfolded us and then taught us how to echo-locate and guess what? We were shitty at it. We weren't very good at it. He can ride his bike around [crosstalk 00:27:56] that he's never been to before.
Mark Miller: Yeah, it's nuts, isn't it?
Mick Ebeling: And he can do it, right? So it's like, oh wait a second. So just because the lights are on, I can see. But when the lights are off, I can't. You just got to check yourself a little bit in terms of ... Daniel can quote "see", but he doesn't see the way you see [crosstalk 00:28:16] using the word see isn't really appropriate. It's experience. And so we experience things with their eyes, we experience things with our nose, we experience things with our ears. And when you all of a sudden realize, well the deaf experience things, they just don't do it the way that you do it.
Mick Ebeling: And people will say "Oh, you've created a device to help the deaf hear", and I even said that at the very beginning of this whole thing and it's like no dumb ass. You're not trying to help the deaf hear. You're trying to give the deaf an experience of music. And hearing is like quantifying it and putting it into a package of that's the way that it exists and that at its base it's prejudiced. It's segregational. Is that a word? You're already segregating that experiencing something has to go through the way that I do it and that's just not a way to think on this planet.
Mark Miller: Yeah. Go ahead, Derek.
Derek Bove: Yeah, no, I was just gonna say. I mean, you make a great point. I remember during my first interview, never really thinking about how blind or low vision person access their computer, right? As able people, we just don't think about it. Another point I just wanted to make is I think. Mick, one of the things that you're doing is, I'm going to use this term, I feel like you're solving intimate issues for these people, right? Whether it's C.O.D.I or whether it's Tempt1, these are things that they're passionate about or love doing that you're giving them purpose back for. And then in the mass market, making that relatable. Right? And getting that sort of prevalence that, to your point of what Stevie Wonder made, you're solving these intimate issues which are now relatable and you're also spreading awareness through a lot of these things too, which again, I think it's just awesome.
Mick Ebeling: Awesome. Thank you. We're enjoying the journey. And I think the thing I love most, and it's a good way to incapsulize for the podcast and for incapsulize Not Impossible is we just wake up every day like looking forward to getting a big slice of humble pie. You know, like we look out for it and we enjoy it because we're constantly meeting people who maybe they don't do acts the way that we do it, but we can by really truly seeing the way that they do it, we learn from it and it ends up influencing our design process and how we approached the creation of technology for the sake of humanity. So [crosstalk 00:30:55] I'm going to do the shameless plug and after you've subscribed to this podcast and listen to all of them, I can recommend it, go to podcast Not Impossible and you'll have all the stories of all these other badasses [crosstalk 00:31:07].
Mark Miller: Guess what? We're going to put a link on our podcast, all that stuff. So you guys will be able to find it, but-
Mick Ebeling: Shameless plug.
Mark Miller: Well, it's a good plug because people definitely should do that. And listen, I liked the way that you really frame that is ... You know, I was thinking you and I was thinking about the company and you guys obviously are a bunch of confident dudes. You're a bunch of talented dudes. And you're a bunch of [crosstalk 00:31:29]-
Mick Ebeling: People that work for me are female. Just so we're clear.
Mark Miller: Oh, sorry. Yeah, I meant dudes in the whole [crosstalk 00:31:36]. I know. I'm old. So I use that to mean everybody. My wife calls her girlfriends dude, so that's what I'm conditioned to. But anyways, so a bunch of people who are all those things and compassionate and all that. And I was thinking as you were talking that humility is a big piece of that. You've got to be confident, you've got to know what you're doing. You've got to have all that thing. But you've got to humble yourself to realize that you don't understand things and that you might need to put some effort into understanding something and someone and some new way. And really be humbled to discovering new things and not be so cocky and confident that you know how everything works so that you can't find those new ways.
Mark Miller: And I think that that for me in this podcast, that was the last word that I needed to sort of complete my holistic way of thinking about what you guys do and what you do. And I think that's incredible. And I want to bring it back around to skateboarding because skateboarding is awesome and I'm glad that we have that connection. And I hope that your ... I know it wasn't your nephew, but just just call him that, right? I hope he continues to skateboard. I want to see that thrasher video of him using your technology and skateboarding. That's gotta hit the internet and I've got to see that one day. And I just think everything that you guys do is awesome. And I have tickets to Mid90s, so we've got to wrap this up. And that's not a joke. That is for real. I'm taking my son to see it.
Mick Ebeling: My son just saw it and he said it was awesome.
Mark Miller: Yeah. Great. Great. For those of you listening, that's the new skateboarding movie that's being released. So Google Mid90s. Talk about a guy who's passionate. I think you probably had a lot of things in common with that director. That was a very passionately made movie. So listen, Mick, thank you so much for being on the podcast with us. This was such a great fun, dynamic conversation. We really believe in what you do. What I heard of you back in 2015 at CSUN at the 30th anniversary party resonated with me for all these years. And so when my producer said that you were going to be on this podcast, I'm fanning out a little bit, right? I really, really kind of tracked what you do and really believe in it.
Mark Miller: I love your upside down thinking. I try to do it myself. I'm not very good at it. I love the way that you just are breaking moulds and doing incredible things in incredibly different ways. And how everybody's benefiting from it. So thank you so much.
Mick Ebeling: Thank you.
Derek Bove: Thank you, Mick.
Mick Ebeling: [crosstalk 00:34:14] Absolutely [inaudible 00:34:15] Talking about you guys and keep skating.
Mark Miller: Yeah, I will.
Derek Bove: You too.
Mark Miller: Here we go. We'll end the podcast with a skateboard clap.
Derek Bove: Ah, there you go.
Mark Miller: That's for you. Mick. Alright. Well, this is Mark Miller thanking Mick and thanking Derek and thanking you guys for listening and reminding you all to keep it accessible.
Announcer: The IAP, Interactive Accessibility Podcast, is brought to you by Interactive Accessibility, the accessibility experts. You can find their Access Matters blog at interactiveaccessibility.com/blog.